At ground zero, steel was still found in liquid form weeks after 9/11.
Yet sooty, black burning jet fuel (basically diesel) cannot melt any kind of steel, especially fire resistant, structural steel.
Firefighter: “You’d get down below and see molten steel—molten steel running down the channel rails, like you’re in a foundery…like lava.”
6 weeks after 9/11
WTC Ground Zero Molten Steel (Part One)
“Eight weeks later, we’ve steel got fires burning”
Frame by frame stabilization of WTC South Tower molten metal, by JKeogh of ae911truth.org
Extreme temperatures of the WTC rubble. How was this created; fire, jet fuel, friction?
This is the best 9/11 presentation on the web. If you only see one 9/11 video, see this one. Richard Gage delivers the most complete argument to date that the official story defies reality, logic, and the laws of physics. Included in his presentation are clips from 9/11 Mysteries and Loose Change. Richard Gage is the founder of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth located at http://www.ae911truth.org/ High quality DVD available at http://www.ae911truth.org/store.php Slide presentation available at http://www.ae911truth.net/ppt/index.php Divx format at http://www.veoh.com/videos/v6262617JqAQq9ha
Steven Jones discussing the use of Thermite/Thermate in the 9/11 attacks in New York.
Related:
National Geographic Debunked! 9/11 Experiments: The Great Thermate Debate
Rockefeller Predicted “Event” To Trigger War Eleven Months Before 9/11
Study: ‘highly engineered explosive,’ DoD-ap-only, super-thermite found in all WTC samples studied
Swedish Structural Engineer: WTC Towers Did Not Collapse from Fire
wiretamer
You can melt steal with any kind of fuel, providing you have enough oxygen. Any black smith can tell you that.
Find a hollow tree stump on a windy day.
Cut a hole at ground level facing the wind.
Make a wood fire inside the log.
A stuff wind will melt a crowbar in about 20 minutes
Jeff Fenske
Wiretamer,
I’m not one of the engineers who has studied this, but I can answer this in part. Perhaps others would like to go deeper.
First, I don’t know that what you’re saying is true. But supposing it is, your scenario and 9/11 are quite different. For example, I would doubt that crowbars are made of fire-resistant steel, like skyscrapers are.
Second, the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth have studied this from every which way for many years now, and have concluded a 1,400 to 1,600 degree temperature, which Richard Gage says is about half of what is needed to melt the steel.
The building temperature isn’t even close. And this steel was so hot that it was molten for weeks afterward!
Third, the wind flowing through the building wasn’t a “st[i]ff wind.” The people standing in the opened areas didn’t appear to be fighting any wind.
And the opening in the buildings weren’t even close to being as open as a “hollow tree stump.”
Fourth, the smoke was a sooty black, which indicated a low temp fire.
Fifth, the tower that went down first was struck last, and much of the jet fuel (kerosene) burned immediately, outside of the building in a big poof!
Sixth, as Gage states in the above linked interview, no steel skyscraper has ever come down from fire, anywhere — ever! Here we have three.
Also, you may be interested in checking out the technical articles at Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. For example, this paper: “Extremely high temperatures during the World Trade Center destruction.”
Apparently, the fire, in places, had to be about twice as hot as the temperature required to melt steel, because materials were found melted that required that kind of temp.
So temperatures in the building were at least about four times hotter than what the fuels in the buildings could possibly produce, according to experts who have studied this extensively.
So even if your illustration is true, fire resistant steel and aluminosilicates are dissimilar to crowbars; the openings in the towers are dissimilar to a hollow tree stump; and it didn’t appear to be windy at all.
Jeff Fenske
Philip
The composition of the steal is not relevant. Everything melts or burns given enough temperature and enough latent heat (the stored power of the heat source) the availability of fuel and oxygen. A fire can be both slow burning and very hot, especially when it is heavily insulated.
Underground fires can sustain extreme temperatures for decades given the mass of the fire, availability of fuel and oxygen. This is common in burning coal deposits, rubbish tips and lava flows. The oxygen in very hot fires can be present in chemical form (water and oxides) producing a fire that burns independently of atmospheric conditions. Any fire retardant chemical or water exposed to such a fire would be consumed as fuel by such a fire. It would also burn concrete and aluminosilicates. Throwing water on the rubble may have kept the fires at it core going.
Aluminum warships during the Faulkands war between Argentina and Britain in 1982, the fires got hot enough for the Aluminum structure to catch fire.
The more oxygen a fire gets, the hotter it will burn, regardless of the solid fuel involved. All fires generate a localized up draft which substitutes for lack of wind. The fire in effect creates its own localized wind sheer effects. This is nothing when compared to bushfires creating their own weather! In the highly chaotic situation of a massive structural fire, it is possible that a rapid series of highly localized, extremely strong and short lived gaseous vortexes could generate the extreme temperatures observed in thermite fires, using conventional fuels. Once a critical temperature is reached in thermite fires, the reaction is self sustaining until the available fuel is consumed. Localized atmospheric conditions will have a minimal effect on the fire, because it no longer requires atmospheric oxygen to sustain it.
A structural fire also burns at different temperatures, cooler areas producing the sooty black smoke, the hotter fire producing only water vapor and carbon dioxide which are not visible to the naked eye. What you see on the video is not the hottest part of the fire by any means. The same thing applies to a candle flame.
The only way to determine the temperature at which steal was forged (or in this case cast), is to subject a sample to a mass spectrometer. I don’t know how this is done myself, but I have seen it done to determine the temperature at which the Australian outlaw (Bush Ranger) Ned Kelly’s body armor was forged.
The fire in the rubble the fires in the buildings and the collapse of the buildings are each distinct phenomena. Though the first was caused by the others, the conditions under which molten metal was observed weeks afterward are entirely different to what happened on 911. Information for the rubble fire can NOT be used to determine the characteristics of the initial fires that caused the cascade failure of the towers.
Who exactly was measuring the core temperature of the fires in the towers on 911 before they collapsed, and how? A remote infrared scan would be inconclusive do to the limitations of its sensitivity.
I actually never gave much thought to making a direct analogy between the hollow tree stump and and towers, but now you mention it, the core elevator shafts could theoretically act as a massive chimney. The shape of the fuel source (the towers) may have been more important than the composition of the fuel. Explaining away this possibility using scale models would be problematic because of the chaotic slip stream effects of an updraft over the surface area of the shafts, the thermal conductivity of gasses in the shafts subjected to the radiant heat of the fire and the total volume of atmosphere involved. Imagine for example the effects of a cascading endothermic reaction if the atmosphere caught alight inside those shafts. That is one hell of a chimney fire! They would light up like the solid rocket boosters on the Space Shuttle.
For molten metal to be present under the rubble weeks later. All you need is to trigger a very large AND very hot fire in a huge pile of fuel and then bury it under a mountain of insulating material. That is exactly what happened.
The presence of molten metal weeks later does not mean that the rubble fire was continuing to melt the steal in large quantities, or was even capable of doing so weeks later. The liquid metal could have rained down as the tower collapsed and; unable to cool down due to the massive insulating effect of the rubble; it slowly percolated its way through the rubble in the following weeks.
One final point, every event in history has its unique characteristics, just because no steel skyscraper has collapsed from a fire before is not a significant argument.
Jeff Fenske
Philip,
My point about the molten steel being molten for weeks after is to show that the fire wasn’t just hot enough to melt steel, but to melt it hot enough to stay molten for that long afterward.
You talk about “a huge pile of fuel.” How much fuel fits in the wings of a 767? And then much of it blew up and out upon impact, in the first tower that collapsed.
Elevator shafts could only act as chimneys if there was an adequate intake of air at the base. Or if above the fire, an adequate outflow at the top. Neither were present.
Sooty black smoke indicates incomplete combustion of the fuel, which happens at low temperatures.
How can these three buildings only collapse from fire when buildings that have burnt red hot for many hours didn’t collapse?
Why do you think Architect, Richard Gage is working for half his salary in order to present this evidence to America?
Why do the engineers and architects who are willing to look at the evidence mostly agree with Gage?
Are you willing to look at the *specific* evidence? Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth Technical Articles
And what about the DoD grade nanothermite that is found in every sample tested?
What about VP Dick Cheney ordering them to stand down and let the plane hit the Pentagon?
Why are we torturing people who didn’t even do anything to us, and Dick Cheney defends the practice as necessary?
Ever look into the PNAC document in which he and the others said we needed a new Pearl Harbor so they could have support to take down the countries we then took down, along with others they haven’t been able to yet?
What about what Nick Rockefeller said two months before the Twin Towers’ elevator remodel job?
People can believe whatever they want, but what do the facts say? It would be nice to have a fair investigation so at least Americans will know the truth as we all go down together, having allowed ourselves to be conned by the globalists who used this single event to do the despicable acts that have all but destroyed our Republic.
We can get on the same page if we look at the facts, which are often the opposite of what the globalist owned media allows us to hear. Why else aren’t Richard Gage, Steven Jones and others allowed to present the scientific and mathematical facts to the public at large.
Why is there such a blackout on truth in America?
Because if we found out, they couldn’t control us and bring about the one-world government where no one can buy or sell unless they take the mark.
This should have been settled long ago, but Rush Limbaugh, FOX News and the others are paid $millions to hang up on callers and call people who ask legitimate questions idiots, or a threat to state security.
They’re the threat to state security by being the gate keepers for the secret establishment who are succeeding because we believe their spin without making sure that what they’re saying is right.
As they destroy families’ morality through shows like “Family Guy,” which airs on Murdoch’s other FOX channel. But it wouldn’t still be on if people didn’t watch it. I wouldn’t even know about this show if people wouldn’t watch it where I work. And everyone in the breakroom has to listen to it. I won’t even repeat here what I heard there. And we’re not allowed to sit anywhere else.
What has happened to America? What have we come to?
Ron Paul said it the way it really is.
We had it all, and we let it all go.
Problem > Reaction > Solution.
They create the problem, knowing how we’ll react. And then they give us their solution: the death of America and the free world.
Jeff Fenske
Jeff Fenske
An important addendum.
Architect, Richard Gage said last night on “Coast to Coast AM” (listen here) 80-90% of the jet fuel burned OUTSIDE of the second tower that was hit (the first to collapse). And the fuel that remained inside the building only burned for about 10 minutes. The rest of the fires were basic office fires (paper, etc.) that would last in each office for only about 20 minutes.
Loose quote:
And these fires can only reach about 1400 degrees F in the most ideal conditions. The temps were probably closer to the 1000 degree F mark, which is less than 1/3 of that needed to even begin to melt steel.
Steel acts like a heat sink, which is one reason why steel buildings have never before collapsed from fire, and these didn’t, either.
Also, one of the Bush brothers was part of the security team for the towers.
We need to get to the bottom of this, partly so we don’t blame them, over there, in retaliation to what was done to us mostly from within (“enemies domestic”). See my posts on the Rockefellers, for example. And investigate Project for a New American Century (PNAC). They needed “a new Pearl Harbor.”
We’ve been misled by Rush Limbaugh, FOX News and the rest of the global-elite-controlled media, who led us down the path of REVENGE so we would go along with their preplanned wars and preplanned police state agenda for US.
Is it time yet to apologize to Iraq, now that more than 1 million are dead because of what we’ve so foolishly heinously done?
And now church attenders are more likely to believe in torture than non-church attendees. What’s going on here? This is the source of the problem. Church doctrines and teachings need to be investigated.
America has become the bully, and ‘Christian’ evangelicals are among the strongest supporters. America has lost its soul because churches are no longer Christian.
We need to repent to all of those we’ve stepped on over the years. It’s been going on for decades, as this site documents — America the self-centered, not “loving our neighbors as ourselves,” reverse-Christian bully.
That’s why they hate us. Not because we’re free. They used to envy us. Now they despise us, because we let this happen, and won’t even apologize.
Now, we’re going down just as the towers did — because even now we won’t walk in Christlike love, now that we’re losing our once great republic.
America has become a reverse-Christian nation. Our wound is now critical. There is no longer any way out.
As Roger Waters said, we’ve “amused ourselves to death.”
Jeff Fenske
donkeyshowup
Very eloquent and very heart felt Jeff. I am not an American but live in one of the “5 Eyes” bootlicking lacky lands that support the US in all its terrorist activities. America that the Founding fathers bled and died for has gone. I think it has sunk too far into corruption & greed that only it’s destruction will allow it to perhaps return to the values it once held. Gone is the America of caring for your fellow man. Truth is gone. It’s now do & say whatever to get more money & power & whoever is damaged in the rush to these goals “fuck em” – that’s now the attitude. The few good Americans who still believe in those once human qualities & who believed in that great document – The Constitution, are now crushed under the boot of the federal govt who’s every employee swears an oath to uphold & defend it and who ALL debase it and if they do still believe in it, cower & do nothing. The countryis overun by the fools who post below telling you to shut up & drink the kool aid. . So blind they can not see.
Anonymous
Shut up and drink your kool aid.
r1xlxrose white
The updarught scenario mentioned above is actually ‘The Fire Tube Effect’ – being a fire at the top of a tube burning very hot due to the atmospheric press forcing air into the bottom of the tube. this also explains the tree stump foundry.
r1xlxrose white
My book : 50 Shades of 9/11′ explains how the Fire Tube Effect and the Tesla Effect condemned the towers and the victims to death.