I was reading a thread on Facebook, and realized I haven’t yet addressed this important topic.
The discussion is often about whether prayer should be allowed in schools, but to me the bigger issue is whether we should even have federally controlled schools, which is unconstitutional.
And I have long thought that whether public prayer is allowed or not is minor compared to teaching the religious belief in evolution as fact, which can actually be disproved with facts; though, these facts aren’t taught. Teaching evolution as fact teaches children that the book of Genesis is erroneous, and we’re just like animals — so ~“why not just do it like they do it on the Discovery Channel” — which sex education helps happen.
Charlotte Iserbyt goes into detail how our children are being systematically brainwashed on purpose:
Charlotte Iserbyt: Federalizing and Corporatizing All of The Schools
This following article addresses whether we should even have federally controlled schools?
jeff
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From: News With Views
ARE PUBLIC SCHOOLS CONSTITUTIONAL?
Lynn M. Stuter
January 20, 2003
NewsWithViews.com
As the war over education reform — Goals 2000, school-to-work, and “outcome-based education” — rages on, the time is more than ripe to ask ourselves, “Are public schools constitutional?”
Looking at the United States Constitution, no provision is made for education, but the Constitution does instruct that … “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” (Tenth Amendment) In other words, education is reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Why, then, do we have a cabinet level United States Department of Education (US DOE)? Does this not violate the U.S. Constitution? In a word, “yes.” The US DOE was established under the Carter Administration as a political payoff to the teacher unions for their support of Jimmy Carter for president.
[…]
For example, humanists (Darwinists) believe in evolution while Christians believe in creationism. Is evolution being taught in the public schools? Yes, it is and has been for many years. Is the religion of humanism being taught in the public schools? Humanism is the religious basis of education in the public schools of today.
BD
I agree with you that evolution as it is being taught has many glaring errors and falsehoods in it, and yet these are ignored and the idea is being forced upon us with the agenda of destroying people’s spiritual beliefs. However, it is difficult for me to ignore the fact that, if approached with equal objectivity and intellectual rigor, the bible has just as many flaws and glaring holes.
I am one of those oddballs who is not on either side of the creation/evolution debate, though I’ve been in much more arguments with the evolutionists than the creationists – because their attitude is more offensive to me. I think the truth of that particular subject is something bigger than we can understand, and I am ok with leaving it that way.
Though I do think that this article touches upon perhaps the main area that I disagree with you. I think there is nothing in the material world that one can infallibly rely upon, one cannot simply turn off their intellect and follow everything the bible says like an ikea manual. Everything in the material world is corruptible, the only thing infallible is the personal and immaterial connection that we have with our creator. Thus not even the bible is infallible, for it is part of the material world as are humans and everything else here on earth.
If you don’t mind, one day I’d like you to expand upon this particular subject: Why do you believe that, despite the fact that all of Christianity – its traditions, its church, its authorities – has been corrupted and infiltrated by the great evil force in this world, somehow the bible is completely infallible from cover to cover and has not a word of it has been corrupted. It seems that when studying history with an attempt at objectivity, one cannot escape the conclusion that the bible has certainly also been altered and corrupted by this same evil force.
Jeff Fenske
BD,
I wrote this in a comment, elsewhere on this blog. You may be more interested in the last portion. I personally believe that the Bible is rock solid and can fully be trusted. And we don’t just have to take people’s word for it. The evidence is actually amazing!
Regarding the trustability of the Bible text, itself: first, regarding the New Testament, the Greek text that the King James, New King James, World English Bible and others is based upon is a really good text. The problem is what Westcott and Hort did, to then make the intentionally altered Egyptian manuscripts the basis for Greek texts that followed. And this is what the New International Version (NIV) and many other modern translations are based upon, which is now owned by Rupert Murdoch of Fox News fame. And I think Chuck Norris has been a big fan of Fox News.
Is Murdoch’s NIV the ‘N’ew ‘I’lluminati ‘V’ersion? Has the Word of God Been Corrupted to Bring US Into the New World Order?
NIV alterations that greatly affect Christian doctrine — including my pet peeves. The NIV is destroying the church! Here’s proof.
Westcott and Hort Magic Marker Binge! Would you take a magic marker to your Bible and cross out words from passages? Do you read the NIV?
What is HORRIBLY WRONG with Modern Bible Translations like the NIV? Most modern versions slavishly depend on the Egyptian and Vatican corruptions of the New Testament!
The Hebrew Old Testament manuscripts are a completely different story. They don’t suffer from intentional revisions, like what the Egyptians, like Origen did to the NT manuscripts. The Jewish scribes who copied (to preserve) the OT manuscripts had such a reverence for the text that they made sure their texts were copied accurately through a number of means, including even counting the number of letters on a page in a specific way.
The Old Testament text is rock solid. I haven’t posted even one article on this at ONEcanhappen, because I think most of my readers there already know this, and I major on New Testament doctrine, because we are now living in the New Covenant, which is what specifically applies to us, now that we have the Holy Spirit abiding in us, enabling us to overcome sin to the greater degree that is now expected of us, which I show in Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures… and here:
[WordPOWER!] Jesus Ups the Ante – Matthew 5:21-22: “YOU HAVE HEARD that it was said…, ‘You shall not murder’…. BUT I TELL YOU, that everyone who is ANGRY with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment”
[WordPOWER!] Jesus Ups the Ante – Matthew 5:27-30: “YOU HAVE HEARD that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery;’ BUT I TELL YOU that everyone who GAZES at a woman to LUST after her has committed ADULTERY with her already in his heart. …your whole body to be CAST INTO GEHENNA.”
[WordPOWER!] Acts 17:30-31 God Upped the Ante when He Sent the Holy Spirit — “The times of ignorance therefore God overlooked. But now he commands that all people everywhere should repent…”
[…]
I just now briefly looked for a website or video I could recommend in order to see how fully valid the Old Testament is, from many points of view; though, this also includes evidence for the New Testament. This video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5haOlksuPM and some of the others on this page are related to Josh McDowell’s Christian apologetics work. He is one of many.
I also like Kent Hovind’s videos on the scientific basis for creation and scientific proofs that really do disprove evolution: http://www.drdino.com. He has a goofy side, though. And he’s currently in jail for tax evasion. Not being careful enough in all things is what the once-saved-always-saved doctrine can do to a person, in my opinion. But science in the videos is fascinating. He is a GOOD GUY in many ways, and he really is BRILLIANT, METICULOUS, and probably even inspired when it comes to figuring out the science.
I can think of one article at ONEcanhappen which is helpful: The Universe is Young––Evidence from Space, Earth, Biology & History
And Ron Wyatt’s archeological discoveries are absolutely amazing: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22ron+wyatt%22#q=%22ron+wyatt%22&hl=en&prmd=ivnso&source=lnms&tbm=vid&fp=ea54a3743b85b93
This should really solidify your faith in being able to trust the Old Testament.
BD
Thank you very much for your extensive links, I’ve watched many of them and I’m still watching them. However, I am still waiting for the evidence that supports your belief that the bible is infallible from cover to cover.
The links you cited support *historical* elements of the bible, which is a part of the bible that I’ve never had a problem with. I actually don’t have a problem with the earth being 6000 years old. I don’t have a problem with it being a billion years old either. I think that particular fact has very little relation to god and faith and being a good person.
What I have a problem with is what I see as the evil words and actions of the old testament god, and the inconsistencies with the new testament god.
A pill that is 99% vitamins and 1% cyanide will still kill someone. What you seem to be arguing is that, since the historical information can be verified, then I should also accept that the words in the book are in fact completely unaltered words from the one and only god. I fail to see how these are connected. I’m sure you’re aware of this, but there are texts that are older than the bible whose contents can be historically verified. Should I then credit the words within these historical texts to the one and only god?
Even though your links didn’t have the effect I’d hoped for, they did help to clarify something for me: my problem with the old testament is not anything that can be resolved with some sort of “proof” or other.
Conservatives pride themselves on absolute morality, they are against moral relativism – the idea that things are sometimes evil and sometimes good, depending upon the circumstances. Well, the words and actions of the god of the old testament are just evil, and every single argument I’ve seen to try and counter this idea, all of them amount to *moral relativism*.
I will continue this soon, I have to leave work. But I just wanted to share my thoughts.
Jeff Fenske
BD,
I see.
Well, first, there is a clear concept in a passage in Romans 11 that most pastors are running from (they don’t want to talk about the fear of God at all), which says that God has a severity side as well as a kindness side:
17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them, and became partaker with them of the root and of the richness of the olive tree; 18don’t boast over the branches. But if you boast, it is not you who support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.” 20True; by their unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by your faith. Don’t be conceited, but fear; 21for if God didn’t spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 See then the goodness and severity of God. Toward those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23They also, if they don’t continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut out of that which is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more will these, which are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
Then there are also passages, mainly in the Old Testament in which God acts in ways that we might not understand, including myself; though, I think there are some explanations that some haven’t considered, which I’ll discuss below, like the reason for the flood and why he told Joshua to kill the Canaanites (Nephilim).
And then there is the whole issue of hell.
Personally, I don’t have a problem with these issues because I trust that God always does what is just even if I don’t understand fully why.
Much of my confidence comes from how He’s treated me in my 35+ years of knowing Him. I’m convinced the more people get to know God the more they will respect and be in awe of Him. There will be no disappointments with God.
And my wisdom is so finite compared to His omniscient wisdom. He understands justice far more fully than I can.
There is an author/pastor/speaker whom I would recommend: Francis Chan. He is really precious in how he discusses his own struggle with some of these issues. I would especially encourage you to watch a video, or listen to a book on CD, so you can hear perhaps his heart more.
He and Preston Sprinkle recently wrote a book on Hell, but Preston narrates it in the audio book. It’s still good though. Francis actually wrote the final draft, but it is kind of weird hearing someone else read what Francis wrote. It was for me — but still good.
I really like his Crazy Love book, which isn’t as heavy, but it will still cover some of this, especially the fear of God issue and the wisdom, or lack of wisdom in questioning some of what God has done and how God is.
All of my Francis Chan posts are here at ONEcanhappen (currently numbering 26), with latest posts listed first. And I think the latest ones are largely on the hell issue, which may not be the best starting place. I would recommend watching some of the videos, maybe even those in the third page, my first Francis Chan posts (10 posts per page).
Also, I have some prophecies that I’ve gotten, which are posted on my site that hardly anyone reads. So I’m hoping to by the end of January read these to put up as YouTube videos. I think these will help people see God’s heart. Jesus is actually crying. His heart is sad. My Jeff’s Writings page will help point you to the written versions.
You can see too how God’s heart was grieved ( which I believe is absolutely literally true — and now true also) in Genesis 6, because of the great sin of man so He had to send the flood to purify the gene pool, because of what had happened with the Nephilim:
My theory on the Nephilim: When God told the Children of Israel to kill every man, woman and child in Canaan (the giants), there was this Genesis-6, demon-contaminated genetic problem again? Israel did not; and then there was intermarriage. This would explain why so many seem to be predisposed towards evil — and they become our leaders — even of churches?!!
A lot of things have happened because God has decided to give us free will; though, many Calvinists will disagree, which makes no sense to me. And there are some things going on in the demon/angel realm that we don’t understand well enough to be able to understand all of God’s decisions.
And with all of this in mind, how wise is it for us to forever question God’s justice for certain historical things, or for even hell itself (which He deeply doesn’t want anyone to go to — but most are — but that all would come to the knowledge of the truth), we being the clay and Him the potter?
God is a good God, and God is HOLY — just as we can fully trust the HOLY Spirit — who we can be led by every day!
I hope this helps.
jeff
BD
Thank you for the thoughtful comments.
By questioning the bible, I think you are assuming that I am questioning god. I don’t think that I’m questioning god’s justice, because the bible is not god. The bible is a physical book written by human beings. One cannot escape that human beings wrote the multitude of texts that comprise this book, human beings translated the texts, and human beings decided which of the multitude of texts, written over the course of decades or centuries, would be included and which would be excluded.
This belief in the infallibility of the bible includes an implicit assumption that all the men who wrote the various books of the bible, AND all the men who translated the books, AND all the men who decided which books would be included or excluded, every single one of these men was incorruptible. This seems to me the only way that the bible could have passed 100% infallible and incorruptible throughout history, and it also seems to me to be improbable.
With just my simple understanding of human nature, I find it hard to believe that men in high places would not have seen the enormous power they could wield over the masses by altering this or that passage in the bible. I’ve seen certain alterations within my lifetime, such as changing god’s reference to himself from “we” to “I” in the old testament.
Your own reference to the “New Illuminati Version” of the bible – is this not red-handed proof that the bible CAN be corrupted? This new version of the bible was not completely altered to where it is unrecognizable, one can read it and still recognize it as the christian bible. It simply has little changes here and there which all serve the aims of powerful people. I think this is the way that things have always been, it is nothing new! The old versions were not completely rearranged into unrecognizable texts, they were simply altered here and there in order to serve the interests of powerful people.
Regarding my “questioning god’s justice”, consider this: when Jesus walked on the earth, he was not even referred to by the name “Jesus”. That name came long after, it didn’t even exist in that time period. So when we talk about “Jesus”, are we talking about some other person? No, the word is just an interpretation, a signifier. This shows clearly that the word itself is not the thing of true significance. What is of greatest significance is what is in a person’s heart – “by their fruits ye shall know them”!
If I have the audacity to question the words written in a human book, this does not mean I am questioning god’s justice, I am questioning man’s integrity and his ability to accurately portray god in the written word, passed down over the course of millennia.